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I think the tension between literal interpretation vs. symbolic or archetypal interpretation is a common one, regardless of path. It certainly shows up in Judeo-Christian traditions which have long had expressions of both Literalist followers (focused on a literal interpretation of their texts) and mystical / contemplative practitioners (actively working out the doubt/faith aspect via experiential means…and what we might call “resonant prayer”).

For me, this is the essential difference between religion and spirituality (as a way of life). As the mythologist Joseph Campbell once said [and I'm paraphrasing wildly here], religion is accepting someone else’s story; mysticism (or spirituality) is stepping into the Great Story yourself.

Where I get curious about other people’s belief(s) in any tradition (but particularly in Shinshu) is whether literal interpretations are derived solely from an intellectual place or if there are those who have an actual, felt, heart-centered, somatic, or even a transpersonal / multidimensional, dare I say “shamanic-like” experience of these dimensions?

Perhaps the Pure Land is something akin to the Bardo of Tibetan tradition (as described in the Tibetan Book of the Dead).

My own inner sense: what is referred to as the Pure Land is akin to this in some way – a realm of experience, a state of consciousness; its vibrational essence being something tangible that can be “linked up with” via the nembutsu, and cultivated within this very body, within this very life; not a factoid to be taught, but a “spirit” that is caught, and then perceived in everything…from the cellular level…outward.

It calls to mind the experiences of Ippen, who was shown the Nembutsu Odori practice, or Ryonin, who was guided to begin practicing and teaching the Yuzu Nembutsu.

Felt experiences guided these innovations and developments. One might look upon this as them asserting their own self-power but perhaps our own actions, aligned with sacred reality, are not self-power at all…but other-power manifesting.

Deep Peace,

Frank

And to the anti-abortion protesters: despite the title of this episode, it has absolutely nothing to do with your debate. We do not talk about the legal status of access to abortion in the United States; we do not talk about the morality of protecting a woman’s right to choose; and we do not discuss whether or not a fetus is “alive” in either the legal sense or in the Christian sense. The main thrust of our comments come from a specifically Japanese Buddhist and largely ritual context far removed from your debates. So. Please. Before you get angry at us for stating our opinions, do us the favor of actually listening to the episode and thinking about whether or not we’re even having the same conversation.

Thanks.

You might like the SciFi book by author Iain Banks called ‘Excession’ which deals with a late space-going Culture of almost unlimited resources encountering something that is completely outside their experience and how they deal with it..not that you guys seem to like your SciFi analogies or anything

Thanks for another good talk!

Whereas, there is no negative judgment of homosexuality in the Buddhist religion,

Whereas, a number of BCA ministers have been performing same-sex weddings for a period of at least thirty years,

Whereas, we wish to affirm the worthiness of all persons independent of sexual orientation.

Now therefore be it resolved, that the Ministers Association of the Buddhist Churches of America oppose any governmental prohibition of same-sex marriage.”

I was thinking about the other great questions you guys tackled in the podcast. It seems to me one of the problems with the question “can a defiled being attain shinjin within this human life” is that it is based on a false premise. The Shinshu answer is flatly no, a foolish being cannot attain shinjin, due to our unbreakable attachment and delusion. After all, shinjin is not something that we attain. Shinjin is something that we receive. It is precisely deluded, defiled, foolish beings who receive shinjin during this human lifetime, due to the workings of Other Power. Realizing the difference between attainment and reception is pretty much where the Shinshu rubber hits the road, so to speak.

The other issue that I was thinking about was the question of whether someone would realize they have shinjin. It seems to me that the problem is trying to put shinjin in a box and say that it is one thing, only one thing, and always one thing. Shinjin is in fact the same for everyone–that’s why Honen affirmed that Shinran’s shinjin was the same as his own. But sentient beings are all different from one another, with no two ever being identical. So of course there are people who will receive shinjin and realize that they have, and people who will receive shinjin and not realize that they have. Their shinjin is the same, but they are different, so naturally their understandings and experiences in life will not be the same.

Anyway, just some follow-up thoughts. It would be great if y’all were doing a live podcast in March when I’ll be town, I’d love to maybe ask a question or hear what others are curious about. I should be in Berkeley by Sunday night BEFORE the conference starts on Thursday.

Have a great weekend.

Thanks for the response. Coincidentally, after we recorded these episodes, I started reading your book on this subject. And as I was listening to this episode yesterday after it went live, I kept thinking how I would answer the question completely differently now! So thanks for your valuable input.

And for our listeners who are interested, Jeff’s book is called Mourning the Unborn Dead and can be found here — or, of course, you local independent bookstore or library!

Nishi Honganji does not carry out rituals to save/exorcise aborted fetuses (mizuko kuyo). Honzan is extremely clear about exactly what their reasoning is, since this is a contentious social issue. There are four primary reasons that they have stated in their official publications, which I’ll give in more or less decreasing order of importance (but they are all important):

1) Amida embraces all beings, and therefore there is no need for mizuko kuyo. Aborted fetuses are brought to the Pure Land and attain liberation just like adults do. There are no limits to Amida’s compassion, so naturally it enfolds the unborn as well as the born.

2) Rituals are completely ineffective because we are unable to muster sufficient merit on our own to actually change the supernatural destiny of living beings. Only Amida is pure enough and has a sufficiently large storehouse of merit to over-ride the workings of karma and effect the liberation of the living and the dead. Thus all Shinshu rituals are merely expressive of our feelings: thankfulness, reverence, humility, love, sadness, etc. It is OK to hold a funeral for an aborted fetus in order to express one’s grief and to offer a chance for attendees to hear the Dharma, but mizuko kuyo to change the afterlife situation of the fetus is futile (and, because of point one, also unnecessary). This is essentially the point Harry was making in his own words.

3) Mizuko kuyo is forbidden in the Honganji-ha tradition because it draws on Japanese cultural attitudes of the sinfulness of women and encourages fear of spirit revenge. Honzan says that rituals that discriminate against women must not be carried out by priests of the tradition, and that fear of spirits is mere superstition with no basis in either science or religion. There are no such thing as haunting ghosts (since Amida liberates all spirits) and no need to fear because Amida protects nembutsu practitioners from all supernatural danger. Fear and anxiety–the main emotions that provoke mizuko kuyo–have no place in authentic religion.

4) Mizuko kuyo is used to exploit the ignorant, scaring them into paying large fees for rituals. This form of economic manipulation via religion is totally rejected by Hongaji and considered a corrosive force in society.

So, that’s the official position. Individual priests are welcome to formulate their own opinions, but are asked not to a) represent their own opinions as those of Honganji or b) carry out mizuko kuyo in their role as Honganji priests (i.e on Hongaji-affiliated temple grounds or while wearing the robes of a Honganji priest). On the other hand, Honzan has stated that Shinshu women who do have a mizuko kuyo performed are not to be condemned, but sympathized with and explained to about the true doctrine, which obviates the need for further fear or expense.

I formed the Boston Shinshu Buddhist Sangha 10 years ago, and though we have been inactive for the past few years, I feel the sangha still exists on some plane. Our sangha was supported by both Rev. Taitetsu Unno and Rev. T.K. Nakagaki (NYBC). We suffered membership attrition and loss of our meeting space. We hope to get back up and running. Meanwhile, your podcast is a great resource, and I hope it will continue as you are off to a great start.

gassho,
Rick

Jeff, thanks for the questions. Harry and I are mulling them over as head back to the recording booth — er, room where we set up the computer and hit record!

I listened to the new podcast this morning, and a couple of other topics occurred to me that y’all might address at some point.

First, what specific recommendations can you make for Buddhists who live far away from any temples, especially Shin Buddhists? Statistically, almost no one in America lives within 30 minutes of a BCA temple (most don’t live within five hours of one). That’s not at all your reality, but nonetheless perhaps you can figure out something for solo Buddhists to try.

Second, and totally unrelated, it might be very interesting to speculate what Buddhism in America will look like in 2109. What groups will still be around, and how will they have changed? Who will have died out, and what interesting new groups on the scene will there be? How will Buddhism have affected wider American culture? How should we analyze the enormous pan-religious devotion to Her Holiness the 16th Dalai Lama? Etc.

When i was listening to your complicated no-self podcast a while back, i just thought, Hey, maybe the Buddha was anticipating/explaining the idea of a soul in future/past religions and he was saying that there was no such thing (in a very complicated way). Anyway, you answered my question. No, he wasn’t. They are two entirely different concepts. Case closed. Thank you.

My question about a basic, common thread uniting all Buddhist sects was prompted by another of your podcasts where you stated that Shinran hardly (or only once) mentioned the Four Noble Truths (or maybe it was the Eighfold Path). Anyway, that kind of blew me away since everything (which is not much) i had read/heard about Buddhism included those ideas as being the most important in Buddhist thought. As a matter of fact, when somebody asks what is Buddhism, you would start your answer by talking about Four Noble Truths, Eightfold path, etc. I should have asked this question specifically because your answers were much deeper and broader than what my question warranted. Basically, i think your answer was that
it’s not necessary to have a basic principle that unites all Buddhists, it’s all good.

I enjoy your podcasts, they’re free-wheeling, spontaneous and fun and i like it that you guys laugh alot, but at the same time i respect your knowledge and expertise and i’m learning alot from you.
Thanks again,
George

Thank you for spreading the Dharma coast to coast with your recent visit to Ekoji Buddhist Temple. I have never been truly grateful for how your podcast and website do not truly reveal your pleasant interpersonal engagement which goes a long way in teaching the Dharma. It was a pleasure to meet you in person. Thank you for your visit!

In Gassho,

Evan Cantwell

Thanks very much for your visit to Ekoji and for for the wonderful manner in which you shared the teachings during the MAP program. We hope you enjoyed your stay in DC and look forward to staying connected through the ether.

In Gassho,
Anna Tecson

At one point Dr. Scott wondered if failing to take action when a person observes an injustice could generate negative mental karma. According to the interpretation that I am most familiar with regarding the 3 types of karma (mental, spoken, physical), both the things you do and the things you do not do fall into the catagory of physical karma. You discussed the importance of intention in determing karma. I thought I would add that the three types of karma can also be divided in to thinking karma and post-thinking karma, such that mental karma is created by the process of thinking itself, and spoken and physical karma take place after thinking. According to this interpretation, it seems clear that failing to take action when you notice an injustice would generate negative physical karma.

With regard to your discussion of evil and karma in Jodo Shinshu, I was reminded of the last line of the Eighteenth Vow made by Dharmakara Bodhisattva prior to attaining Buddha, which secures birth in the Pure Land for all beings who take refuge in Amida Buddha, excluding those who “have committed the five heinous sins and those who have reviled the true Dharma.” I heard a Shinshu teacher here in Kyoto explain this to mean that one must not commit grave trangressions after taking refuge in Amida Buddha, but that transgressions committed prior to embracing the teaching of the Buddha will not impede the power of the vow to secure your birth in the Pure Land.

The person who I heard give this teaching didn’t unpack it much beyond that, but I would venture to say that a good way to understand the Jodo Shinshu perspective on correct behavior is that we should endeavor to live well, but not with idea that those good actions are going to be our ticket to liberation from suffering. To my mind, the locus for moral action in Jodo Shinshu should be a sense of gratitude our human life, the beauty of the world, the people around us, etc.

Gassho,

Thanks,
Dorothy